Condensing the most urgent needs that citizens have between now and 2026 in the Development Plan of the government of Gustavo Petro has not been an easy task for Jorge Iván Gónzalez, director of the National Planning Department (DNP). In these months he received more than 1,100 proposals that he had to reduce to 300 articles. In fact, in the last 24 hours before filing the document in Congress, he had to say that there are not many requests and sectors, that now in the discussion that is coming in Congress to convert this roadmap into law, it could be revived. However, he is optimistic and his motto is that Colombia should think about big projects. In an interview with EL TIEMPO, he explained the axes that this four-year period will have and assured that at no time will there be dictatorial powers.
The Plan contemplates several extraordinary powers for the President for 6 months, such as creating, merging and suppressing entities of the Executive Branch. What would they be used for?
To organize the Bicentennial Holding, which includes the country’s public financial entities; or to reorganize the Ministry of Equality, since there is not enough clarity on how it would be formed. Another important issue is that many ministers were asking for funds. So what was thought is to create one called ‘World Power for Life’, which includes different sub-accounts and its financial transformation would be done with these powers. But the Plan does not give dictatorial powers to the President; on the contrary, it is to seek solutions and obviously Congress will define what is convenient and for how long
The opposition has even spoken that with them the division of powers would end…
No, it’s just that chirping is very easy. Previous Development Plans have also requested them. What dictatorial powers? Everyone can say what they want, but Congress will be the one to tell the President what extraordinary powers he may have.
The draft that was leaked spoke of creating, merging or suppressing companies in the electricity sector, but in the end this did not remain. Could they do it?
Yes, we are thinking, above all, of the small local generation companies, how they can be better reorganized, but we would have to talk to the electricity sector. Here there is complete respect for the capacity of the legislative branch.
What other entities could be merged or eliminated?
All entities that have to do with subsidies must be ordered. For example, Familias en Acción, Colombia Mayor, Jóvenes en Acción, etc. Everything must be organized so that we can move towards universal income registration. One of the bases is that the subsidies do not continue to be bad.
When you talk about creating a universal income registry, do you mean that all Colombians will have to declare their income before the Dian?
Yes, but in a progressive way. For now, we want to start having information on people’s income. With the social record, planning It has an instrument that includes 33 million people and gathers 27 databases. We want to improve so that over time we all declare. Thus, those who will have greater capacity will pay taxes and those who do not will receive subsidies. That is the ideal. Now, we are all aware that controlling the entry of an informal person is very difficult, unless the technologies continue to advance. For example, when you buy gum or a chocolate bar from a street vendor, pay with your cell phone. In this way, the State will know more or less how much the shopkeepers will sell and if they need subsidies.
Four years from now, can you imagine people who earn minimum wage filing the declaration?
Not yet. But if we don’t do another Sisbén, I can’t imagine Planning setting up Sisbén V. The State must start looking for other instruments.
There has been talk that this universal registration could affect the tax reserve…
No. La Dian now respects the reserve with the information of the taxpayers as well and we in Planning. To the extent that there are closer agreements, the legislation will be respected as it is now.
Throughout the Plan there are various articles related to taxes, isn’t it a tax camouflage?
We have been very careful not to introduce tax issues that we know may have difficulties being knocked down by vices.
But are there any?
It may be that there are some on the edge of what could be considered tax, because in the bases we say that cities have to improve property taxes or that they improve, for example, capital gains or congestion charging. It is not that we are proposing a tax reform, but that we are saying that in order to leverage resources it would be important for cities to also contribute, especially large ones.
Is that why the contribution of adult content platforms fell?
No, that was in the middle of the debate that I needed to better remove it.
From the draft that was leaked, some powers were also eliminated, such as the one that allowed the modification of Supersociedades and a digital agency…
We did it in the last almost 24 hours on the recommendation of the lawyers. There were ministers asking for faculties. We put an article at the end where we sort of put them all together.
So it was the turn of many to say no?
Sure, lots of people. They made us proposals for 1,100 articles. First we lower it to 200 and end up at 300. For me that is too much, but hey, what does one do…
So all those who didn’t get in could be revived in the congressional discussion?
In Congress, a meter goes for 5,000….(laughs). Last time they entered some 4,000 proposals. So 300 or 200 is a little compared to what is coming…
And is he prepared to put up that fight?
Let’s see what happens. What he told the congressmen is that we try to define large strategic projects. I am very afraid that in Congress we will move again to a lot of small projects. The dream is that the benches of the Caribbean propose 4 large projects, that those of the Coffee Axis another 4 and so on… but well that is very difficult. I will continue insisting
The mayoress of Bogotá, Claudia López, complained that the subway did not appear, what would she say?
What we did was some of the new projects that would be funded over the next four years. We did not put the subway because it is already working, because it did not seem that it corresponded directly to the new aspirations of the Government.
The document talks about the reallocation of electricity subsidies to cover the essential level of consumption. What changes will there be?
What we want is for anyone to have minimum conditions: public services, education, health, internet, etc. That is, society has to guarantee people the basic conditions to live, that the citizen knows that the State responds to him for food. As Lucho Garzón used to say, “no one goes to bed hungry”. So you have to point it there.
The Plan also includes various health items. Are they getting behind the reform?
No, we return to the trills, it is very easy to trill. What we are saying is that the EPS remains as it is. The President has already said clearly. The only thing that we are proposing is that the steering is rotating. Now, if the health reform is presented this week, then this article may remain necessary.
Regarding rural reform, has the goal of 3 million hectares delivered through the Land Fund been lowered?
When one begins to look at the complexity of how the price of land is defined, how technical advice is given or how it is financed, we say that if we achieve 400,000 it is wonderful.
So the goal was lowered?
Yes, we in Planning never said that 3 million. Now, 400,000 is still a very ambitious goal because it defines the value of the land, productivity, all of that is a mess. What is clear is that the Ministry of Agriculture is going to have much more money; Your challenge will be execution.
Will the land invaders who will remain for three years be given title to the property?
Before the period was longer, that was changed, there was also a lot of debate. So we put up as long as those lots, those properties are not in any trouble, because they told us that this was like legalizing the power of the usurpers. It is a mechanism that facilitates the multipurpose cadastre and that allows progress in titling, but we were careful.
One of the goals of this government is to get rid of oil little by little. Was it part of the plan?
The idea is to depend less on oil and minerals such as coal, that is very clear; Now, there is no specific goal. This country, for various reasons that I do not agree with, became an oil country. Most of the exports are oil and minerals. Therefore, you have to change little by little. We need to move forward with some realism. The process has to be slow. Colombia is a huge power in terms of tourism; but you go to tourist sites and you don’t see water. So it takes time.
And your opinion is that new contracts should be signed or not?
What I have said is that we do not continue with that discussion. I think we have to change the language towards the positive. Let’s not keep saying no, no and no; on the contrary, we move towards the positive. How we managed to change the diversity of the Amazon, that the Magdalena be a navigable river, punish the private car, advance in hydrogen, etc.
But the Plan does say that the development of large-scale open-pit thermal coal projects will be prohibited…
In coal we are more radical. One thing is oil and another is coal. Demand for coal has now risen again due to the European energy crisis caused by the war in Ukraine and Russia, but this will be very temporary. In Planning we have no doubt that coal has been discouraging. Another very different thing is oil or other minerals.
There is talk of public-popular associations, what are they?
We have always talked about public-private partnerships, thinking of large companies. What this government now wants is that we try to see how people with less income participate in the dynamics of the State. For example, in garbage much progress has been made, increasingly including low-income people who have been linked to the collection and classification process. Also, if a tertiary road is going to be built, you have high engineering, but you hire the residents of the town to be able to do it.
NOELIA CIGÜENZA RIAÑO
Economics and Business Deputy Editor
